Throwing, tipping....why ??? | Autism PDD

Just need to vent....

Erin has always been a thrower and a tippper.....all of my kitchen chairs are broken because she has tipped them so many times she has loosened the joints !! The seats are all off and the legs now sway....i haven't bought new ones yet...'cause I'm hoiping she'll outgorw ....but why buy new now ?

As I'm typing this I can hear her throwing something in the other room....not sure what.....I can guess it is my sons plastic bin of toys.....

She loves the NOISE that the thrown object makes....I can tell you...nothing grates on my nerves quite like the noise !!

Off to stop the noise.......

Oh yeah...and should add......I am on about my 10th set of dishes thanks to her.....I have actually given up caring about matching dishes....all ours was mismatnched and PLASTIC.....my mom gave me an old set of hers....I don't even want to take.....they'll all be broken by year end.....That sounds very stressful. When she does this, what are the consequenses if you don't mind me asking.

Great question.....

Consequneces are always the big question in our house....very difficult to find a consequence that works on Erin.....she isn't bothered by much...timeouts are a complete joke......

I DID FINALLY find a consequence that works for US !!

I'm almost hesitatnt to write it here......don't know what response it will get.....

But here goes....(gulp)

Erin is a VERY physical child....so I always felt she needed a physical consequnce...that is the "terms" she understands.....HOWEVERR......Spanking is NOT an option for ME......when she was young.....I made her stand still with me holding her hands...that was our time out.....

We had a H*E*L*L of a time when we went to the beach....she ATE sand like it was a gourmet delicacy.......I tried everything then to stop it and the only thing that worked was MARCHING her to the ocean where I made her sit and washed the sand from her mouth......SHE HATED IT !!

She hated the loss of control......me putting her in the water vs. her walking in on her own.....she hated that I made her sit......I looked like the meanest mom around.....but guess what.....after about 4 rounds.....she completely stopped !!

We had "worked" on sand eating for a year at school.....and in ONE day.....we had conquered !! She would always test.....and the consequence was the same and she'd stop....

So.......my consequence at home.....is a trip to the shower.....I stand her in....clothes on and turn on shower...for about 3 seconds...enough to get her clothes wet.....she hates it......and I need something she hates.....I usuaslly make her wear the wet clothes for a minute before changing.

It isn't harmful and it gets her attention.....now....I can usually just ask her "do you want to be all wet"....and she'll immediaiately stop.....

NOW my big problem is everyone else.....school can't use that....I can't ask babysitter to do it.....so I have a great tool that no one else can utilize !! She is much better for me than anyone else....she knows exactly what she can "get away with" and who she can get away with.

Well.....if you all think I'm horrible for my consequnce...I can take it.....my skin is pretty thick.....

But....back to my original problem......how do I get the chair tipping and throwing to stop BEFORE it starts ? No what I mean ? I can stop it after she is in the "cycle"....but how to prevent it from ever starting is another question !!

I don't think you're horrible at all. I appreciate your honesty and sharing what you do.

As for getting her to stop, since she is getting something from doing this, can you take the chairs to a different room when they are not in use? I know that sounds dumb but you've removed it from her and now she's got nothing to tip. Maybe you've tried that already.

You mentioned the word "cycle" - is there anything at all that happens before she starts throwing or tipping? It may not seem obvious at first but maybe keeping a journal for a few days or if you can video taping may shed some light?

Just tossing out some ideas. My two boys went through the whole dumping thing and thankfully I was able to break them of it simply by having them pick up whatever they dumped out. They resisted and I persisted and over time they both stopped. But I know that doesn't work for everyone.

LOVASS used a cold shower as an aversive. Temple Grandin's nanny used to punish her by popping a paper bag near her ear. I got my son to strip off his clothes when he resisted taking a bath once when he was little by spraying water on the shirt. We do what we have to do. There ARE aversives that some schools use, but each state is different in their tolerance of these techniques and they usually have to be written into the IEP. I understand that some ABA programs still use aversives like Listerine wipes on the lips. Frankly, I don't know what these punishments are for, but corporal punishment can sometimes works when nothing else does and that doesn't just mean spanking. Using our kids' sensory issues as punishment can work. Of course, most people try EVERY other positive approach first, but like I said, we do what we have to do. Good thing you found something that actually works. Don't feel bad.

We have removed chairs, etc...but she NEEDS some feedback and when she doesn't get it from the tipping will resort to throwing or banging her head......

Laughing the whole time....this is not anger or defiance....this is FUN

I feel that just removing the "problem" does nothing to solve it....hence the problem at the beach....how do you remove all the sand.....

It raises a whole new set of questions regarding expectations......am I allowing her to continue ......CAN she stop herself ? Should I expect that she can stop./....or do I resolve to never have a complete set of dishes ( or charis for that matter)

Wehave defintiley tried the...."you dumped it....you pick it up" routien......but to her it all turns to a game......just as much fun to pick up.....those blocks make a great "bang" going back into bucket......

at school.....they have a VERy differernt consequnce.....she has to perforom a task over and over 'til she has calmed.....it used to be a small plastic bucket with blocks......'til they caught on that she was enjoying it......then they tricked her.....

Gave her a CLOTH bucket and she has to put cotton balls into it.....no noise....no feedback...just boring and quiet.....perfect !! That works there as a tool to calm her so that she can be re-directed.

Disiciplining Erin is the toughest thing.....my two boys were never a problem....they responded to all the conventional methods, have great respect for authority and are very well baheved ( for the most part

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/sensory-processin g-disorder-checklist.html

I don't know if you've had any success with social stories, but I had a story about chair tipping on my list of links to sample stories. Here it is:

"When I sit in a chair, all four legs of the chair should touch the floor. If only one or two legs touch the floor, my chair can tip over. Tipping my chair can make me fall. If I fall, I can get hurt. Tipping my chair can make my teachers sad or mad. I do not like it when my teachers are sad or mad. I will try not to tip my chair. I will try to sit in my chair with all four legs touching the floor. My teachers will be happy if I sit in my chair with all four legs touching the floor. Then I will be safe."

Comprehension Questions:

When I sit in the chair, should I keep all four legs of the chair on the floor?
Where should all four legs of the chair be?
If only one or two legs of the chair touch the floor, what will happen?

Source: http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/autismservices/Social_Story/so cial_stories.htm

Good luck with everything.

Thanks Norway Mom....yes...you hit it on the head...huge sensory seeker and huge impulse problems....though I DO see them lessening s she gets older.

I want to clarify the chair tippin as well...jsut so you get the ACTUAL image....it is NOT her sitting in the chair and tipping it.....she is too small for that physical abilbity.....

It is my teeny tiny 30 pound girl standing in front of a chair, grapsing its seat and tipping it backwards so it WACKS on the floor.....hence.....all my loose and wobbly legs and seats undone !

Though...this also has improved....when she started preschool....there wasn't a chair left upright that she passed.....teachers knew she was seeking the auditory inoput and have placed foam "bumpers" on the backs of all the chairs....so no noise when chair falls !

Thanks for listening all !!!